Friday, 25 July 2008

Toss another steak on the barbie

This is another one of my heartfelt quests for information. At the back of the third south pylon at the Ramaseum there is a great battle scene. Ramases is in his chariot riding into battle, defenders are at the top of the fortress, the artillery are shooting arrows, cavalry are charging, a son of Ramses is about to top a enemy soldier, a lovely lively scene and right in the middle at the bottom they are having a barbecue!!!!!!

Here are some much better images, my photos heavily editted by Hannes from Germany

Well it looks like it, someone is carrying the buns, another person has a jar of wine and there is a small cow. It has always puzzled me as it just does not seem to fit.

Today I was at the Ramasseum and there were some obvious archaeologists sitting there and I asked them about it and they said they were just discussing it themselves. Speculation was that it might have been added later but the content still puzzled everyone.

Does anyone have any idea, I am sure it has been published in French as Christian leBlanc is working there, but I do not read French so that is no help.

Here is another photo taken by Stan

This entry was posted on Monday, April 14th, 2008 at 3:29 pm and is filed under Jane Akshar. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

9 Responses to “Toss another steak on the barbie”
S Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
If you can find a copy I would be happy to translate (FR->EN). In the meantime, maybe you can help me with another “mystery” concerning the same scene. When we were there a few weeks ago, we referred to a guidebook that insisted that the enemy leader could be seen being dragged from the river, held upside down and beaten on the back in order to resuscitate him. Looked up, down, left, right. We couldn’t find him. Any help would be appreciated.

Administrator Says:
April 14th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
That is on the back of the second pylon north side, I was told he was Egyptian and had ‘fallen in the water’!!!!!!

khnumhotep Says:
April 15th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
The scene about the ‘enemy leader’ is on the North-west side of the second pylon (just to the left of the colossi as you face the first pylon). A discription of the scene, as well as a line drawing, can be found on the following link. A description of the event can be found in Kitchen’s Pharaoh Triumphant, although i don’t have the page number at hand.

As for the scenes at the back of the third pylon. I believe they are often called ‘the siege of cities of Dapur and Tunip’.

Hope this helps.

Clandestino Says:
April 17th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
This is Dapur… The figure on the left side is one of the son of Ramses’, KhaEmWaset, but MontuHirKhopsef is also be shown on the wall. Other four sons of Rameses is shown by fighting against the fortress of Dapur, carved as warriors wearing shield and sword, SethEmWia, MeriAmoun, Seti and SotepenRa… Opposite of them they’re sirians (with the food and wine…), one of them with the gesture of adoration… Maybe they will offer some food for the egyptians? Don’t disturb, there’re some bread and wine, let us go away…? (The last ist only my idea)

The CEDAE has a serie of superb publications about the Ramesseum, but this part can be maybe one of the 1970′ or 80′ parts. You can find it in CAIRO by CEDAI i’m sure.

:-(… i feel my beloved place again…

Clandestino Says:
April 17th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
ps: Maybe it’s a publication written by Goyon, when it helps…

Administrator Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Well your explaniation is possible but when you look at the scene it seems so out of place. If it was to the side it would make more sense but right in the middle it just does not seem to be part of the original/ I would welcome any other contributions

Administrator Says:
April 19th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I got a reply via EEF from Daniel Soliman

I wrote my BA thesis on the depictions of sieges of Syrian
fortresses by Egyptians and I discussed this scene as well.
These four people are most likely the inhabitants of the village of Dapuru that is under attack, as their garments are cleary
not Egyptian. According to Wreszinksi, these figures are
the chief of the town, his wife and two daughters ( Wreszinksi,
Atlas zur altaegyptischen Kulturgeschichte II, 109). This is implied
by the fact that they are depicted on a bigger scale than the
common Egyptian soldiers in front of them, reflecting their
relative prestige or rank. A similar phenomenon can be seen
in the tomb of Horemheb at Saqqara, where the Egyptian
scribes bringing in rows of foreign prisoners of war are much
smaller than the enemies. The four figures here seem to bringing
a tribute to the Egyptian victors consisting of an ox, wine and
a basket of breads. This could be interpretated as sign of capitulation. The theme of tribute giving is not unique in such scenes and
occurs in other Ramesside reliefs.

Daniel Soliman

Clandestino Says:
April 20th, 2008 at 11:59 am
I told the same but i’m not a scientist so nobody believed me …

Administrator Says:
April 22nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
I must admit I was swayed by the fact he did his docorate in these scenes but it was the reference that was the clincher ( Wreszinksi, Atlas zur altaegyptischen Kulturgeschichte II, 109).

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